#19 🤯 Ex-Satanist Leader's Shocking Encounter with the Devil & Miraculous Escape Through Jesus!

Tania (00:04.844)

Yeah, yes, it's recording. That is good news. Yeah, so this one, it's gonna record and in case you do see like the audio or the video dropping off, it's fine. Just follow the audio. It will keep recording on the side, so that's okay. You can just do that. then you can see how much is getting uploaded on the right side. So even once we are done.

Riaan Swiegelaar (00:31.555)

Yes.

Tania (00:31.884)

Let's just, yeah, we'll just stay back so that it does, it finishes the upload.

Okay, so maybe even after we are done with the call.

Riaan Swiegelaar (00:38.889)

Okay.

Okay.

Tania (00:46.518)

Yeah, let me see if my internet speed is okay. Okay, so that is fine. Yeah, so you know, anything can go wrong and then the whole thing would become a mess and I'm like, that would become such a big stress for me. So I'm just making sure all of this is okay. Fine, so that will get recorded. That is okay. Then.

Tania (01:10.156)

Yeah, are you using the phone or is it a webcam?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:13.646)

I'm using my phone.

Tania (01:16.066)

We are using a phone. Is it in horizontal?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:19.444)

No.

Tania (01:21.287)

it's in vertical. Okay, so it has to be horizontal. Can you shift it and make it horizontal?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:26.027)

Let me see.

Tania (01:37.659)

Does the camera change?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:40.669)

Not really.

See.

See now, no, because if I do it this way, you are. So if I do it this

Tania (01:55.32)

What if you turn the auto, the rotation lock off, is it on?

Riaan Swiegelaar (02:02.686)

It's not

Tania (02:04.042)

It's not on. interesting. OK, fine. Did you sign in? OK, because when we are doing this, OK, that is fine. So it doesn't turn. It doesn't turn. Yeah, you sure? OK, OK, fine. All right. Because when we are doing the thing, if it's like YouTube, it comes in the horizontal thing. But that's fine. Yeah, it's fine. OK, OK, that is OK. So that is fine. Then.

Riaan Swiegelaar (02:17.44)

Yes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (02:28.567)

Okay.

Tania (02:33.696)

Okay, so I'm just going to... Is there anything in particular that you would like to discuss by any chance or just free flow?

Riaan Swiegelaar (02:42.928)

No, I prefer, like we can start with anything and then I mean it is like a conversation. So if from what I say you think there's more questions or if you want me to go more into anything particular, you can just, yeah, flow the conversation that

Tania (03:02.492)

All right, okay, I'll do that. Most of the guests that I bring in, are from the US. So I have to do my recording in the nighttime. But you're from Australia. So it's like, it's a good thing I can do my recording in the afternoon time and then I have the rest of the days. It's like nice to speak to people from Australia. How's the weather and everything there? Is it good?

Riaan Swiegelaar (03:11.305)

So

Riaan Swiegelaar (03:25.171)

So I'm in South Africa.

Tania (03:27.251)

sorry, South Africa and Australia, two different places. Correct. My math is not good, but that's fine.

Riaan Swiegelaar (03:32.748)

Yeah, it's very cold here. We've got winter at the moment. So we're the middle of our winter.

Tania (03:41.846)

you're in the middle of the winter. We are right at the peak of our summer. So we're getting barbecued here. Funny. Okay, I'm going to start now. I'll just introduce you and then I'll ask you about some list. What I'm going to do is I'm going to start with asking you what was it life like before you ventured into Satanism? Then what was it before you got

Riaan Swiegelaar (03:46.8)

All right.

Tania (04:08.585)

in touch with Christianity or your encounter with Jesus and then what is it like. So that's kind of what I've planned.

Riaan Swiegelaar (04:17.224)

Sure, perfect.

Tania (04:22.798)

Also, another thing, in case our time extends to more than an hour, is that all right with you? If at all it proceeds, okay. Then my daughter might come and knock on the door, so I might pause in between, or I'll put myself on mute. A lot of things can go wrong, so I'm just gonna give you a heads up about everything. Okay, and I would pronounce your name as Rian Swiglar.

Riaan Swiegelaar (04:29.715)

Thanks.

Riaan Swiegelaar (04:41.874)

It's all good.

Riaan Swiegelaar (04:47.965)

Yes. Perfect.

Tania (04:48.96)

Is it? Okay, cool. All

Okay, so today we have a very special guest. have Rian Swiglar onto the Celeste Vault podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today, Rian. Welcome.

Riaan Swiegelaar (05:05.499)

Thank you so much. Very good to be here.

Tania (05:08.728)

Suryan, my first question to you is what was your life like before you ventured into

Riaan Swiegelaar (05:16.742)

Okay, so before I got involved in Satanism, I was very much an atheist, but I was very interested in spiritual things. So I dabbled very much in esotericism, psychic readings. I also practiced as a psychic medium and I also practiced as a crystal healer and I did all those type of things in the holistic industry.

And then through that is how I discovered different things pertaining to the occult. And then eventually that got me to be involved in

Tania (06:00.09)

What do you mean by occult by the

Riaan Swiegelaar (06:03.737)

Okay, so occult or the occult refers to mystical practices so the occult basically means things that are hidden from the average person so in the occult they believe in practicing certain rituals, so that's not necessarily Satanism per se but things that pertain to witchcraft and practicing certain rituals

and things like that. that's what I mean with the

Tania (06:36.546)

I'm actually really excited about our episode because you do mention witchcraft, occult, rituals, practices, and all of these things. And I was raised as a Christian myself. Then I got into this situation where I felt hurt, like you mentioned, where something happened. And then I started getting into all of these things. And I think I'm at the stage where I am in the witchcraft ritual position. So I'm excited to find out how you came out of it.

like what is right and what is wrong. So that's how, now can you tell us what exactly Satanism? I thought it was a myth by the way, I thought it was just in movies, but what is Satanism?

Riaan Swiegelaar (07:06.532)

Sure.

Riaan Swiegelaar (07:15.103)

Okay. Yes. So, Satanism is a religion that very much is a founded religion and it's also not, so it's two things. So, you get people who practice Satanism purely as what a lot of people would refer to as they will worship from a lack of knowledge and then you get Satanism as a religion that was founded in the late 60s.

by Antony Marvay in the US. in South Africa, where I founded the South African Satanic Church with five other people, we were known as religious Satanists. So there is a different doctrine. There is the satanic Bible that Satanists follow. So there's a doctrine and it's very much a religion. And to sum it

Satanism is the direct opposite or the direct rebellion against Christianity and more specifically against what Jesus Christ came to do on

Tania (08:24.226)

Hmm, interesting. You had mentioned about how you ventured into Satanism and what happened? What happened at church? What was your upbringing like? Did you believe in anything?

Riaan Swiegelaar (08:36.113)

Okay, yes, so I grew, I very much grew up in a Christian church with Christian parents and we were taken to Sunday school and all of those things and because I got extremely hurt in the Christian church by people, I perceived that to be okay, but so if this is what God is, then God is not for

So therefore, I left the Christian church and that's how I got to be involved in different things, like I said, all the metaphysical things, including the occult practices. So that was a period of almost 15 years before I got involved in Satanism. And I think what appealed to me when I got involved in Satanism, so this was almost seven years ago already, was that when I read the satanic Bible the first

I resonated with that philosophy because it very much speaks to the person that is hurt by religion, is hurt by Christians, that is rejected by Christianity. So it paints a picture of you as an individual and you're not really supposed to belong in normal society and there's a reason that Christianship just rejects you and that type of thing. So we also have to keep in mind

Tania (09:57.431)

Hmm.

Riaan Swiegelaar (10:00.315)

that Satanism is designed in that way, that it would actually appeal to the person who feel they don't belong and that they are in essence rejected by God. So it's very clever. It's a very clever construct and it's a very good deception. And from all the thousands and thousands of Satanists that I've met over a five -year period, they all have that in common, is

they are broken and hurt and they feel rejected by God. Therefore they feel, okay, so we, because I think every human being has this need to belong to whether it's a group of people or a tribe and to search for their identity and then ultimately to belong. So the sad thing about it is that you have a lot of people who with

Christian wounds, if you want to call it that. But it's not just people being rejected from Christianity, it's also people rejected by other religions. And obviously not realizing that there's a difference between religion and actually knowing Christ. So that for me is something that I can definitely say if I look back at that time. And then obviously, when I got involved in Satanism, there was a very much a need

for power and to be able to manipulate the world and to understand the true essence of people. yeah, so I also just want to mention that I'm not necessarily telling people what they should believe. So I don't really believe that it's for us as human beings, even as Christians, to actually try to convert people or to tell people that what they are doing

is wrong and that they're going to go to hell and things like that because ultimately that's not really the heart of God. God is a God of love. see these were all the misconceptions I had from a time coming from a Christian upbringing. So, there's a big difference between being religious and actually following Christ. And also if we look at what Jesus did,

Riaan Swiegelaar (12:21.636)

while he was on earth and the way he loved people and the reason he actually came to earth. It's not about condemning people, it's not about judging people. And this is a conversation I quite often have with other Christians and people in leadership of churches, is that it's not up to us as human beings to actually save people and it's not up to us as human beings to convert people, it's God that does that.

So God saves people and Jesus saves people free. It's not to ask us as humans to actually go around and speak highly to other people and judge people because we are not allowed to do

Tania (13:02.85)

You're absolutely right. know, once I got to understand the love of Jesus Christ, initially, I was also in the same position where you were at, where I get angry when people don't believe in God. I get really pissed off and I say, you're not listening to me. like, I feel like they are possessed. then it started stressing me out. It's like, what should I do? They're not listening. I'm going to pray for them. Is this much prayer enough? How long should I pray for? So it was just going really crazy.

Until at one point I realized that God is working harder than me and he loves them more than me. So there's, do not, it's not under, it's not on my shoulders to take that burden. And in fact, when you try to do this, right, when you try to convert people so much, they get also turned off by the whole thing. They don't want to go next near.

Riaan Swiegelaar (13:40.009)

Yes, yes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (13:49.749)

Yes, and I was one of those people who got turned off by Christians doing that years ago. And that's one of the reasons that, like I said, 20 years ago when I left the Christian church is because that was my experience. And sad to say,

Tania (14:00.652)

Yeah, you're

Riaan Swiegelaar (14:19.481)

Because I have a healing practice where people come to me for deliverance and where they have these deep church wounds and it's all from churches and people in churches who have heard them. And I think it's very important for the world to start understanding that that is not true Christ's heart, that's not what Jesus actually meant when he spoke.

Tania (14:31.415)

Yes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (14:48.404)

If we want to actually get to know the real Jesus Christ, we can obviously see that in the Gospels, but we can also have a personal relationship. And there's a very big difference between, again, religion and being religious and having a true relationship with God and having that personal connection. Because if you don't, anything that everybody says to you, you're going to believe that. And people who supposedly

for God and for Christianity are doing a lot of damage in the world. mean, that's sad, but that's the truth.

Tania (15:25.742)

Yeah, in fact, you the number of people who got killed in the name of Jesus Christ over the course of years, over these last 2000 years, how many people got killed on this thing? This is not what Jesus meant or wanted for us. Do you think you can if you you mentioned that something hurt you all of those years ago, right? Do you think you can get into what what it was or what that moment was when you decided that I am getting out of Christianity and church?

Riaan Swiegelaar (15:38.193)

Yes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (15:54.33)

Sure, there was a few things that happened but what I think stands out very strongly was I remember there was church council meetings about people who came to church, like very poor people and people in church were complaining about these people, how dirty they are and the way they smell and they don't want to sit next to them and

Tania (16:12.331)

Mm.

Tania (16:19.721)

mm.

Riaan Swiegelaar (16:21.553)

what can we do as a church, what's the word I'm looking for, a council, sorry, as a church council to kind of make sure that they don't come to church or that they can maybe go somewhere else, things like that. So that to me wasn't the true essence of what Christ is and what it should be. Also the way that people who were gay were treated and not felt welcome to come to church.

Again, the judgment, all those types of things that were extremely hurt or hurtful towards people. And also for me personally, I was encouraged not to be friends with certain people, except people in the church. So again, those are all things that is extreme. We call it the spirit of religion. And because I was very young at the time, I actually thought, okay, so this is what Christianity is.

So therefore it's not for me because I don't feel welcome in the church. And if I can't bring any of my friends, they have to be, know, as nothing else, otherwise they're not going to be accepted. And that, like I said, that was like 20 years ago, actually just over 20 years ago. And recently, since I've, you know, was saved radically. So I'm talking about almost two and a half years now. Sadly, I'm still seeing some of that in churches.

And because I'm working in deliverance at the moment. And so there's quite a reparation when it involves helping people to get out of the occult and out of Satanism and to find a fellowship or a church that they can go to. So I try to always find a place or a church where, you know, that's close to them that can help them in their path. But sadly,

I'm still seeing a lot of that in churches where even people who get saved from Satanism and from things like that still gets judged very much. And there's a lot of people who actually simply believe that Satanists can't be saved. You know, how can God actually save and help them? So it's almost putting a limitation on that love of God and the grace that there is.

Riaan Swiegelaar (18:45.002)

It's similar. I mean, like I said, I'm not saying it's all churches, but it's definitely the majority. You still have that judgment and it's still very difficult to find churches that even agree on their basic principles of who Jesus Christ really is and what God's heart is. So it's a very big challenge. Also, you must just tell me if I'm going too much off topic,

Tania (19:14.254)

No, you can.

Riaan Swiegelaar (19:15.201)

Part of the satanic agenda that's playing out in the world at the moment, and I mean, I was very much a leader of a satanic organization still three years ago, right? So there is a satanic agenda that's been played out in the world and been put out in the world at the moment. And part of that agenda is to create that division within churches and within the body of Christ.

So that certain things can let we just fly by without people really noticing it, or the time that people start noticing it, the church or when I'm saying the church I'm referring to the body of Christ, can't even agree on basic things. So, that is why we are seeing a lot of the things that we are at the moment. And it's because that message of love and of grace, is suddenly, it's almost very tainted.

And there's also, like I said, a lot of judgment, even churches judging each other, even people in ministry judging each other. And they think that that is, they're speaking for God, where that's not. Attacking other believers, even using the Bible against other people is not Christianity. That is actually from the devil. It's actually not from God at all.

It's just that the way in which it's portrayed, it's very sad, but like I said, this is all part of a satanic agenda that's playing

Tania (20:52.364)

You know, when you said that one of the big first questions that people have, whether Satanist can be saved, right? It's true. Because I never looked into Satanism. thought that this was, I thought it was not real. I didn't think it was real. I thought it was just like conspiracy theory or then I watched this video by Marina Jacoby. She had put Fall of the Cabal on Rumble and they're talking about, you know, drinking.

blood and like all of these kinds of things. And it's still just too much for me to believe that that is real. And when I checked, so when I wanted to interview you, I went and Googled about Satanism. The first question is, can Satanism be saved? And your video is talks about how, yes, this is absolutely possible. And in one of the reels you had mentioned about how Jesus appeared in front of you and it felt like Jesus knew

Riaan Swiegelaar (21:28.584)

Okay.

Riaan Swiegelaar (21:48.039)

Okay, sure. Okay, so while I was busy practicing, like I said, these different recall practices, and I was running a witchcraft shop,

Tania (21:51.436)

before you knew yourself or it's like he always knew you. Can you tell us then how did you get into Satanism? What happened? What were those things? How did you get drawn into

Riaan Swiegelaar (22:16.6)

A person came into the shop one day and he made me through another person that came to me for a reading. So he

Tania (22:25.996)

When you say witchcraft shop, when you say witchcraft shop, right? What is there in the witchcraft shop? Like what is all this witchcraft? I don't know. Maybe I'm buying all of these things here.

Riaan Swiegelaar (22:34.25)

Okay, so, a lot of people are, but so I used to have a shop in the northern suburbs of Cape Town that used to sell tarot cards and ingredients for spell work, candles and symbols, jewelry that people could wear, you know, with pentagrams, statues, different types of herbs.

and also skeletons of animals and things like that, things that would get used in witchcraft. So, and then at the back of the shop I had a room where I used to do psychic readings and things like that. So that's the type of shop I used to run. So in that time a person came to me and he was a Satanist already and he asked me if I am interested or would ever be interested in Satanic witchcraft or he called it the left hand path.

So at that time I said, yes, absolutely. I was very curious about a lot of things. So he gave me the satanic Bible. And like I said earlier, when I first read it, it resonated with me because of the place I was in my life. And like I said, anybody, and I'm certainly not encouraging people to read the satanic Bible, but let's say if you are at a certain place in your life where you are extremely hurt by religion or rejected

bullied or whatever you want to call it, that book will resonate with you because it's written for that person that wants to have a certain gain of power or need to find a place to belong. So that's where I was in my life seven years ago. And when I read the book, I contacted him and then I said I would like to talk to him about this and I would maybe like to go to a satanic workshop.

He invited me then to a Satanic ritual and they used to have them quite often at different homes. But in the first Satanic ritual I went to was in a Freemason temple in Cape Town that he invited me to and he explained to the people before the time that I'm very experienced in certain rituals and because I had the ability at the time to see into the spirit world and to make predictions which he then confirmed to them.

Riaan Swiegelaar (24:59.294)

So they allowed me to visit and to come to a ritual. And then from there, it was almost a year where I would go to different rituals and partake in certain things before I actually said, okay, I want to get involved in Satanism full time. And then him with some other people, we were seven people in total. We formed the sort of African -Satanic church and registered it as a religious organization.

It was, I almost want to say I was involved already in Satanism for a four to five year period before the official church was founded, of which I was the spokesperson because they also didn't want to be the face of the organization because of who they were. Most of them were very powerful, influential people in business. So they

they couldn't afford to be publicly seen as Satanists. And the purpose of the organization very much was to legitimize Satanism inside Africa, but also to have rituals for people where they could come to. And what you said earlier about things like drinking blood and things like that, I mean, that's very real.

I did that myself when I was a Satanist. I drank blood from human skulls. did that. A lot of Satanists do that if they want to climb around. So the blood was from people who partake in rituals. People will cut themselves for that blood. And the human skull, we actually got from a laboratory of a university. So there wasn't human sacrifice involved the way I was at the present.

Tania (26:32.32)

Where'd you get it from?

Riaan Swiegelaar (26:53.008)

I've never witnessed anything like that. And I certainly know that does happen in satanic churches. But the purpose of the blood is what we have to understand about that is that blood has a spiritual currency, right? And it also is used to appease certain demons in rituals.

So you can literally buy favors from demons and offer them blood in exchange. That's why there's blood, because a lot of people, I think, don't understand these concepts. So they see all these things and they hear things about these animal sacrifices and things like that, which there was, but people don't understand why that happens. And I know from experience that when you get involved in the occult initially, you only do things

Tania (27:32.972)

Mm -hmm.

Riaan Swiegelaar (27:46.439)

you know, you do readings and you light candles and you work with spirit guides and things like that. That's how it starts. But eventually you you become so desensitized and in that need to climb the ranks, you start doing other things and you start studying more rituals and more books on rituals and you start working with demons. And eventually that's where it leads. And I'm not again, I'm not saying to people

don't do that and don't do this. I'm just talking from my experience. So I'm not ever in a position where I'm going to preach to people and say, please don't do that. Stay away from that. That is wrong. I think it's for each person to make their own choices. I can just hope and pray that from talking about what I've been through and my experience that people can have the information to make their own

Tania (28:44.194)

That is true. Thank you for saying that. You know, when you said that you were in the churches and you kind of get you start getting desperate to be able to see those other things. Right. When I started my podcast, I started speaking to channelers. So when when these when they speak and they talk about them being able to predict the future and they're able to see these visions and stuff. I also want to see that. I also started getting desperate.

And then I, you you just go so deep and deep and deep and you go so deep, you think that why am I not able to see it? What am I going to doing wrong? And then there are these books which is written by the channelers who say that, OK, you have to read these out in front of a mirror and say these things out. And then the frequency is going to change. And this is what's going to happen. So I actually kind of practicing it. Yeah, I'm just telling you. So you start getting really desperate on

Riaan Swiegelaar (29:14.513)

Yes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (29:35.202)

Yes.

Tania (29:42.082)

But then there's, again, I don't know which out of these is satanic and which is all real, but there's this other book which is called A Course in Miracles. Apparently it's channeled messages from Jesus. Now, one of the message in that that Jesus says is that, yeah, that if you, even you trying to pursue these things is another form of ego, because again, that's not going to stop. You will feel like nothing is enough

That's when I realized that this is true. This is also a trap. This could also become a trap when you are trying to pursue these things. Then it's like this psychic medium. I'm going to go to this psychic medium. I'm going to spend money on this channel or I'm going to spend money on that channel. It just never stops. And I just never get the vision. I never hear the voice. It never happens. It's only when you relax. know, one day, one time I was just sitting to do this meditation as an I was just sitting with myself.

and listening to my thoughts. And I had done all of my work and I was feeling really calm and I felt loved and cared for. And that's when I realized that this feeling is what God means. It probably doesn't have to be a vision. I don't have to predict the future. I don't need to know who's gonna win the elections. You don't have to do all of these things. So I understand when you say that you kept going deeper and deeper into it, especially you were like the leader in that church, right? And so many

Riaan Swiegelaar (30:58.775)

Yes.

And interesting. So I remember a time where I used to see quite a lot of things. And I used to see what I thought were people's favorite guides. know, when clients came to me for readings, I would give them very accurate information. I would give them people's names that were close to them, street addresses, dates, all those things, very accurate. Because I saw these, what I thought were guides and beings.

So I wanted more of that and more of that and more power. So I started doing more and more rituals and got deeper and deeper into it. And I saw what I thought was the spirit world all the time. And then when I went through my period of deliverance after I left Satanism, all of those things went away. And then about more than a year ago, when God called me to do the work I'm doing at the

I actually prayed about it for three days and I asked God, I said, the things that I saw when I was practicing those things, was it accurate information? And if it's not, I want God to reveal to me what the spirit world really looks like. And I almost regretted it because for five minutes that veil disappeared between the worlds and what it really looks

as what I thought it does, is completely two different things. And all those spirit guides, and I'm saying that in brackets, that I saw, suddenly I saw that it was all demonic, it was all deception. And I saw what that really looks like. So I completely understand why people go that route and people want to see more. I was one of those people.

Riaan Swiegelaar (33:06.745)

But what we have to understand about the devil and demons is there's a lot of deception involved. The devil is not going to come to you as what he really looks like. He's going to come to you as a beautiful, beautiful angel. And all these demons masquerading as gods and familiar spirits and things like that. It's not going to come to you as what they really actually look like, who they really are.

because that's part of the deception. And again, this is not me preaching, it's just I'm talking from my experience and what I've seen and have

Tania (33:48.204)

When you, so what were the kind of visions that you saw before? And then when you saw beyond the wheel, what is the reality then? So what is happening to the channelers when they say they're channeling the council of light, angel, metatron?

Riaan Swiegelaar (34:00.227)

Okay.

Riaan Swiegelaar (34:04.333)

They are also deceived. They are also deceived because they are not aware of what they actually see. So they have good hearts because a lot of them want to actually help people. You see, this is the sad part. Because I was also one of those people before I got involved in cyclism. I actually wanted to help people and my heart, my intent was actually to help people. So I know a lot of people still today

that is involved with that work and they are amazing people that they are not you see because it clearly says in the Bible as well is that a war is not against flesh and blood it's not people people aren't evil people aren't bad and even the ones who are extremely broken and hurt other people they are not bad people they are hurt and they are deceived so when a channel or a psychic and again like I said I was one of those people

you see beautiful things. You do not see demons for what they are. You do not see the devil and spirits of deception and fallen angels for what they are. You are seeing these beautiful beings with halos around their head and very colorful and wings. That's the way I saw it. And they will give you accurate information about another person because that's what familiar spirits does. But then it starts moving to another part where you are

starting to predict people's future and you are speaking certain things over their lives and that is how it works. But the truth is that God wants everything that is beautiful for all of us because we are His creation so He wants to give us the blessings and everything. So let's say for instance you are a person that is longing for a relationship. I'm just using it as an example because that was me and my client.

They might have financial prosperity, they have great jobs, they're healthy, but they don't have a relationship and they're desperately looking for a person. So they go to a psychic and the psychic then tells them things about their past and about the current situation, then starts predicting things about their future. So the initial part of the reading, when the person gives you accurate information about your past, that's how they hook you in. Then they start making certain predictions.

Riaan Swiegelaar (36:29.717)

And this is the way I did it as well. And I thought I was giving people truth and accurate information, because that's what I was told by these guys. But then people buy into it. They are also opening a doorway for demons to start oppressing them. Suddenly, they start going to psychics every week, every month, whatever. They start paying psychics for rituals. They go to reach doctors.

And that thing that they really want never comes because you are being then oppressed and deceived and that is how the devil is actually stealing from your life because that's why the enemy came is to steal, destroy and deceive. So that is what's happening. It's all part of that deception. And it's very sad. And I still do today.

I have regrets and I repent for it all the time about that 20 years of my life where I used to do that because I thought at the time I'm helping people. And it was only when after I had my experience with Jesus Christ and when I was delivered and saved and I went through almost a nine month period of deliverance where I saw what I was actually busy with. At that time I had no

that I am being deceived. And that's why I'm saying the people doing it, they are not bad people. They have a heart to help people. It's just because they are deceived themselves that they are involved in that. And the other sad part is that even a lot of Christians go to people like that. And I certainly, when I was involved in witchcraft and when I was involved in Satanism and when I was doing

I had many Christians, even leaders of Christian churches, coming to me for readings, for things like that. So, that is a way in which they would also open doorways for these operations.

Tania (38:41.794)

That is true. When you said that you saw Jesus and what happened? Can you go dive deeper into that moment? What exactly happened? What did you see?

Riaan Swiegelaar (38:52.85)

I definitely can. I spoke a lot about this in interviews, but I really don't mind talking about it. So, on the 24th of May, 2022, I was asked by the Satanic Church to do a certain ritual, to see into the spirit world, pertaining to the Antichrist. That was the reason behind it. So,

I was the person in the leadership of the church who had the most sight because I psychic work and things like that. So the evening that I was supposed to do this ritual, there was a part of the satanic church that's completely dark. You can only actually light it with candles and it has an altar and all those things. So I went there by myself to do this ritual and I never did the ritual

I started to prepare for it. And as I actually started to prepare for it, the whole area lit up. So it was as if somebody actually switched on a big light. And I initially thought that there's a prank or somebody's prank on me, whatever. And when I turned around, I saw this figure. And as

started coming closer to me, I started making out detail, you know, of his face and his eyes and I asked him because, remember at that time, I had no desire or belief even that God existed or that Jesus was actually real. So I actually asked him, said, but who are you? And he said to me, I am Yeshua. So, and I said, and I was still,

very skeptical and I asked him, I said to you have to prove it to me. And then he flattered me with this amazing love and this warm, like I've never experienced in my whole life. And I still get emotional about it because it's like, it's forever stuck in my being and in my soul and in my spirit was that moment. it was extremely overwhelming

Riaan Swiegelaar (41:13.028)

I remember I fell to the floor and I got up and I went home and I stayed in bed for three days. I was extremely exhausted. And I then resigned from the Satanic Church and I started having conversations with God, which wasn't the same experience where Jesus actually appeared to

Tania (41:26.05)

Yeah.

Riaan Swiegelaar (41:40.881)

It was conversations where I started, for the first time, speaking to God and getting that clarity and that answers. And I mean, God doesn't just speak to us through the Bible, He certainly does when you ask for specific answers and you are late to Scripture, that's how He does it. But God speaks to us through His Holy Spirit. And that was also something that I had to get used to and that I had to learn.

How does the Holy Spirit actually sound when He speaks to us as individuals? What does it feel like to sound like? When the Holy Spirit started convecting me of certain things, I definitely knew then, okay, this is what the Holy Spirit sounds like, and this is what God feels like, and this is how much love, because, I mean, the love that there is is just incredible. And I mean, I thought until two and a half years ago that I knew everything.

you know, about energy and the world and this and this this until I actually met Jesus and until I actually met God. And it is a completely different experience and the sense of peace that comes with it and finally being able to make sense of the world and why things are the way they are and who are we and what is our identity and what are we meant to do here. So everything came together after

if that makes

Tania (43:10.982)

Wow, you know when you mentioned you saw Jesus and you got emotional at the same time, I could feel it. I know you said you mentioned that you don't like the word. Yeah, I could feel the same love. Like I could feel what you felt to some extent when you said that you started hearing God or what does that sound like? What is it? Did you start hearing voice or is it dreams, visions?

Riaan Swiegelaar (43:19.694)

That's my little brother. Yeah.

Riaan Swiegelaar (43:27.93)

Yes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (43:35.876)

No. So initially, it's a place in your heart where if you ask a question, the answer immediately comes like that. It's not a mental place. So it's not like when I used to do readings of things and you work from here, because that's what I used to do, and answers would flow towards you. It's a hard space. It's like if you sincerely

or search for God, He will answer you for certain. God speaks to our heart. God seeks our hearts. And it's the same with Jesus. When I'm doing deliverance, and like I said, that's what I've been doing for most of the time for the last year, year and a half. Because it's not me doing the work, it's God and it's Jesus. So when that actually happens and how beautiful it is to see

and to feel it. And people can't deny it because I meet people every day that they will tell me, but you know, they don't believe and it doesn't bother me. But then I show them and I ask God and I asked Jesus to come in and reveal himself and he does every time because that is his heart. And that's what Christians need to understand. We need to be Jesus for people on this earth.

if you want to actually show God to the world, show them love, because that is who God

Tania (45:10.27)

And when you say that it comes from the heart, is it like you? So let's say what was the first question that you asked God and what is the answer that you got?

Riaan Swiegelaar (45:21.465)

So I write a book about that, which was coming out like this year, by the way. But it was a lot about why things happened to me when I got hurt in the church and what the things that's really important, you know, like does God actually judge us for anything? But those questions, you know, I think questions that a lot of people ask. And I was constantly being laid back to

and how much God actually loves us, because it's something that we will never understand in our minds. It's too big. And what God's real intention is for the world and for us, and like I said, what He wants for us. But it's us. We make certain choices. And we hurt each other as people. we sometimes somehow think that this is God or that God sends people to hell, things like that.

God doesn't send people to hell, we have a choice. We either accept that grace, that's for everybody, because anybody can, this is the beautiful thing, we all have that choice. So you either accept God and His love and His grace, or if you can't, you have to ask God to show you, that you have to see it to believe it, and God will certainly do that.

So I had all these questions, know, the theories about God and Christianity and about Jesus that everybody has. So I wanted clarity because I was also very sceptic. So I got answers to all those things. And like I said, it was never an audible voice. It was the answers that would let me flow into my heart and you immediately just know it. And then it became things like visions and dreams

I'm quite often woken up at 3 a in the morning if God wants to speak to me about certain things. And then I've also experienced where I don't get answers immediately, but then I have to set myself apart for a while and just focus on God until I get the answers. And the answers sometimes come through other people who are followers of Christ. And sometimes it comes through the Bible and sometimes it comes, but it does come.

Riaan Swiegelaar (47:43.86)

We just have to have a sincere heart when we see.

Tania (47:49.134)

That is so beautiful. You know, you said 3 a is when you get the answers, right? So in my head, 3 a is the time ghosts come out because 3 p Jesus Christ died. So when I watch Netflix movies, by 2 .55, I'll go back to bed. But you're saying that that's the time when you get the messages, which is beautiful. So from what I understand is that it's like you have your own thoughts. You ask a question in your head.

and then the answers come like a thought itself. It's like, it's conversations that you're having in the head. But how do you know it's actually God and it's not yours? How

Riaan Swiegelaar (48:28.139)

Because, because, because my, let's say me as a person, I have certain thoughts and ideas and I have a mind and I think a certain way. I still look at the world sometimes very limiting, you know, like a human would do. But when answers come in wisdom and especially in love, that's not me. Because I know my nature, I know myself. I am also just a human being.

I get angry, I get hurt. So if it was me, let's say for instance, somebody, because I get a lot of judgment, for instance, on social media, and I get all sorts of messages. So if it was me looking at that, and I would say, what do I have to do here? So my mind will say, say something back, do something, hurt them. The moment God comes in, it's like, this is all part

the planets as humans, are heard, pray for them, send them love. That's not me, that's God. So that's the answers I get, you understand? So I think when a person, when a person knows himself very well, you will know what your thoughts are and what it's not, and who to listen to. Because the times I listen to God, things work out very beautiful. The times I listen to myself,

things don't always work out so well and it almost gets worse. And also when I speak about certain things, especially when I'm involved in ministry or in the teaching that we're doing with the courses, the information doesn't come from me because I don't... I haven't studied a lot of the information or the theory on what I'm talking about. But when the wisdom comes, that's God, it's the Holy Spirit that's guiding me, it's not me.

So I think if you are a person firstly who do know yourself quite well, you will know when your answers come. Is this me or my mind or if this is

Tania (50:37.474)

Hmm. How is that different from channeling? Is channeling a bad thing? Because from what I understand, channeling is where, you know, like I try to do this channeling thing or I'm practicing whatever to listen. You did it. Yeah, no, I. Well, I don't go into a trance mode. I'm very basic and I'm like a baby at that stage. I'm doing nothing. I just basically sit and I ask questions.

Riaan Swiegelaar (50:50.235)

I did it, I did it years ago. So you go into a

Tania (51:05.748)

And then they said that it's like the first answer that comes out, yeah? And then I write it down. And I do see a difference because I'm very hypercritical about myself. I say that I've not done enough. I have to do more. I should have had this much in my bank account by now. Why is it not there? So I'm very hypercritical. But when I do this thing where I'm sitting and asking myself questions, the answer that comes out is like, you're doing more than enough. This is fine. I love you.

Riaan Swiegelaar (51:24.7)

Yes.

Tania (51:34.634)

Someone else said in the other interview that you attended, he said that, why are they saying we? And then you said that if they say we, then you're being deceived. I feel like the answers that I get is also like, we love you kind of thing. But then the messages are still out of love. It's very loving. So what do think about

Riaan Swiegelaar (51:43.143)

So, my first question to answer the question is, when you are channeling, what is your intent, who do you connect with? So, if a person is just connecting to the Spirit World, which is, there's a lot of things and beings in the Spirit World,

As opposed to when you are speaking directly to God because a lot of people also think we can't do that a lot of people for some reason think We are not good enough to speak to God where in essence We are the sons of the king and the daughters of the king. So we have the right That is that is part of the of the courses that that I also help people teach is that what is your authority? And what is your identity in Christ? And what is your?

identity as a creation and a child of God. And one of those things is you have the right at any time to speak directly to God, directly. So channeling is when you say you almost project astrally into higher dimensions and you ask a question and an answer comes and you can either write it down with automatic writing or you can record it with your voice or in front of an audience as I used to do it quite often.

There's a big difference between that and speaking to God directly and getting the answers from God. And from the answer that you get, if you have the Holy Spirit, which you're also supposed to have if you are redeemed by Jesus Christ, you'll have the anointing of the Holy Spirit and you'll have the discernment to know, is this from God or is it not? Even when another person comes to

which I also had quite often, I would have Christians sending me messages and Bible verses and things. So if I didn't have a relationship with God, or if I didn't have the discernment of the Holy Spirit, I will just believe this is God, where it's not. And that's why I'm saying it's so important. And this is what God wants for us. God actually wants a close relationship with all of us. That is His heart.

Riaan Swiegelaar (54:04.696)

And the rules, if you want to call it, the things that is referred to in the Word by, not do certain things. That is to protect us, it's not to control us. God is not telling us not to go to witches and to control us, it's to protect us, it's to preserve that relationship with His children. So, when you speak to Him, that you know is Him answering. This is... and again, I work with people every day.

who have been to many psychics and warlocks and things that they are so confused. None of those people are actually in a better space than they've been, you see. And think about it, really think about it. And that is why one of the things that God does not want us to do is to seek answers outside the kingdom. Do you see? Because if we do, we get confused about is this God speaking to me or is there something else?

Tania (54:44.3)

Hmm.

Riaan Swiegelaar (55:04.387)

I'm just using that as an example. Because God really wants a close relationship with each of us. And for each of us, it's supposed to be almost a unique experience. So you cannot say, my relationship with God looks a certain way. Therefore, yours needs to look exactly like that. Because we are all created in His image. And God works differently with all of

So I can't go to a person and say, you know what, Tania or whatever, this is what I got from God, what I must do, you must do it as well. If you don't do that, you are being sinful. That's not my place. You see, this is where Christian is twisting the whole thing. We're all supposed to have that unique connection and we should know what God wants for us. And whenever...

Tania (55:53.782)

Yeah, that's

Riaan Swiegelaar (56:03.757)

We are doing something that is not in alignment with that covenant that we should have a God, the Holy Spirit would convict us. It's not for other people or even for churches to say to us, what you are doing is wrong and sin, repent, you're going to burn. That's not God, I'm sorry. So, God can speak to each one of us if we have that connection and that's why it's important. I hope that answers the question.

Tania (56:34.718)

Yeah, that does answer the question. You said that one of the things that struck me when you said that is that we think we cannot directly speak to God. That is true because I do feel like that. I feel like it's either the archangels or the council of light, the Galactic Confederation and the E .T.' and all of these things. I. know, yeah, you know, also

Riaan Swiegelaar (56:56.8)

Yes, yes, you see, you see, that's my point.

Tania (57:04.362)

I don't know, what do you think about this book called The Course in Miracles? Because why is it then that Yahshua says that He is the Way? Why is He saying

Riaan Swiegelaar (57:16.758)

because that's the way that Yeshua came to this earth so that we can have direct access to God and His grace because we are in essence, they call it in our flesh, we are not worthy. Jesus came to this earth, the cross of Christ is for people so that we can have direct access through that. The price is paid, do you

We are all worthy because of what Jesus did. That is why he's saying, I am the

Riaan Swiegelaar (57:54.402)

And that's why after I had my personal encounter with Jesus Christ, I could suddenly speak to God. I didn't feel, I didn't even believe in God before that day. You see, so, and that's also the process for people. And people I've met recently, the moment they actually embrace Jesus or Yeshua or Christ, that's the way, that's our connection. And it's also

Tania (57:54.882)

Why did he?

Riaan Swiegelaar (58:23.933)

link to the Kingdom of God, which is open for everybody, because of what Jesus did. That's what he meant through that. There's no gatekeepers, you see. In my very first testimony video, I actually said that the Kingdom of God is not a gated community. There's no pastor or reverend or whoever to tell you, you are good enough or not good enough, therefore you can't follow Christ.

Jesus already died on the cross so that all of us can do that. And that's what Yeshua means when he said, am the

Tania (59:01.742)

Hmm. When I don't understand the concept of Holy Spirit, what is that? Is that also like a voice? Is that a person?

Riaan Swiegelaar (59:12.085)

So, God is three parts. So, it's God the Father, and it is the Son, which is Jesus Christ, and it's the Holy Spirit. So, that means His Spirit, which is closer to us than our clothes. Right? So, God is, if you want to see it as the Creator part, the Creator of everything, from the beginning to the end, forever and ever. And then you have Jesus Christ, who

God in flesh, right, as a human being, came to earth. And then when he went back to God, he left his Holy Spirit for us here, so that we can feel his presence and access him at any time. And like I say, the Holy Spirit is as close to us, if not closer, than the clothing on our body. That's God's essence, his presence. If that answers the

Tania (01:00:11.667)

Okay, so when you say that Jesus, why does it say that Jesus is the son of God? Because you know, from the spirituality thing, what they say is that everybody, everyone has soul and all the souls go through these different progression and we ascend and

So the only chance that we get to progress in our soul and ascend is when we are here on the planet while we're here. And Jesus came down and he was able to do that well because of all the past lives that he had, I think. And because of that, he was able to do that. he has now he has now he's at the end of the game. So he is probably like the closest to God.

So when he say that Jesus is the way, it's just them telling us that the way that Jesus lived his life is how we live our lives so that we will also be able to ascend and our soul will have that progression and we will be able to go closer to God and raise our vibration and frequency and that's how we win this game that we are all on. What are your thoughts?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:01:22.126)

Okay, so I do not believe that it is necessary for us as human beings to try to achieve enlightenment. Do understand? So I think and I know that God knows all, knows our hearts extremely well. Okay. Us as human beings

We have also three parts in my opinion. So before I met Jesus, I had a completely different other view. I thought we are all just, you know, a collective spirit. I believe that our souls, right, is much bigger than our bodies. So our body sits within our soul. It's not the other way around. Our soul is not inside our body. Our soul is massive. Our body sits inside.

So, on this experience we have on Earth, our awareness, our focus is the physical, okay, in our flesh. But we also have the soul and we also have our spirit. So, we are a creation, we are created by God. Okay, now we experience the world on the physical. There's certain

that we can only experience in our soul and in our spirit that's also connected to our physical body. Right? So, because of salvation, or we can even take salvation out of the... because I'm not going to assume that everybody is saved. So, let's say because of our spirit part and our soul part, we can experience God

in the fullest that it's possible for us to consume in our human condition. Once you have experienced that, okay, the peace and the knowing of who we are and why we are meant to be here and what happens after is there immediately. You don't have to think about it or you're supposed to probably question it until you get the answer. So I'm not saying we shouldn't question things. But once you actually

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:03:42.671)

find it and you have that connection. The answers are there. So there's a certain philosophy. And again, I used to believe this as well when I was in the occult that we go through many lives and we have interdimensional experiences and it's about frequency and energy and all those things. Where in essence, it's actually, again, it's our heart, it's our spirit, it's our soul.

that have experiences at the same time. So I'm trying to remember what the original question was. okay. So for me, it's about finding a way it was about finding purpose. And it was about finding identity. Because a lot of the philosophy about enlightenment and ascension and those type of things, like is about people searching for themselves.

not really finding themselves, but constantly. I mean, I can't tell you how many Plough Medicine journeys I used to do, how many practices of meditation, breath work, how many rituals I used to do to go to different initiations in mystery schools. I did all of those things. At the end of it, I never had peace. never... because there was always the next thing, the next thing I have to do next thing. The moment I met Christ,

Tania (01:05:00.296)

Yes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:05:11.095)

The moment I got to know God and his heart and my purpose specifically and also purpose in general, everything came together for

Tania (01:05:23.852)

Hmm. That is beautiful. Okay, so that was deep, right? When you...

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:05:32.401)

I'm sorry if I'm going off topic. You are very much allowed to pause me and direct me back to the questions. No

Tania (01:05:41.847)

No, this is just go off topic as I also keep going off topic. I forget with my own questions. that's totally fine. That is OK. So, know, I would love to continue speaking to you, but our time is going up. So I'm going to ask you this very simple question. Who is God?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:06:01.271)

Okay. Okay. So God is the absolute, absolute pure essence of love. The true, unconditional, never -ending love. That is my closest answer that I can give in a short

Tania (01:06:22.176)

What do you think is our purpose in life?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:06:25.619)

Okay, it's service. It's we are here on this planet to help each other. If we look at all the bad things that's going around, it's because people do not love each other enough and help each other enough. So we all have different ways and different callings, different talents on how to serve one another. That is our purpose here on this planet.

Tania (01:06:57.826)

What is now Rian's purpose in life?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:07:01.526)

My purpose at the moment and what I've been called to do is to teach people about firstly about God about why things are the way they are in the world why bad things are happening why the good things are happening the choices we have how to move things from bad to good how to be completely free and empowered

Tania (01:07:28.64)

And last question, how can we all grow closer to God?

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:07:35.399)

I think it's about again love It's about showing each other love if you also if you're a person who want to If you feel that you don't actually know who God is seek sincerely Speak to God directly. You do not have to go to a person. You do not have to let another person dictate to you You you if you if you knock on the door, it will be open. It's written

the Bible and that translates to, if you sincerely, directly see God, He will show up, I can guarantee

Tania (01:08:12.77)

That is beautiful. Thank you so much, Rian. Can you tell us where we can find you? What do you do? there a book that you're going to release? When is that exciting book going to come out? Tell us more about your

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:08:26.397)

Okay, so it's easy to find me on social media. I use my real name. So it's Rian Swigelard. You can probably post it somewhere. People can find me there. I constantly put updates on videos and things out. The book is coming out at the end of August. So it will be available in September online and also in bookshops. And it will be available for PDF two months after. So let's have my October.

If there's people, you know, in other parts of the world who want to read it. And yeah, I'm also involved with the Deliverance Hub, which is about to go live in the next month. And it's for anybody around the world who wants to access people that can help you to be free and delivered from any type of operation, whether it is disease, financial or anything. And it's completely free of charge.

based on fees involved.

Tania (01:09:27.374)

Can you dive a little bit deeper about the deliverance project that you're working on? What does it do? Who is it for? How is that going to

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:09:35.302)

Okay, so people who are experiencing certain paranormal activities, demonic activities and being oppressed, they can't seem to find help in the mainstream churches because mainstream churches will tell them it's your imagination or we shouldn't focus on the devil or whatever. So it's specifically aimed on people seeking deliverance or someone that can actually help them to be completely freed and delivered.

from any type of negative oppression being that entities or demons or possession. So that's the main focus. And then the other part of it is to educate spiritual warriors to help other people with

Tania (01:10:20.76)

Beautiful. Thank you so much. When you mentioned your name, that's when I realized that I completely mispronounced your name. You didn't even correct me. That is so... I was very... I was very close. So that is beautiful. Thank you so much, Rihanna. You're such a sweetheart. Thank you so much for the work that you do, for coming on the podcast and for speaking to us. I really, really enjoyed this episode. All of the links will be mentioned in the description and also in the show notes.

Riaan Swiegelaar (01:10:29.671)

You must very trust.

Tania (01:10:50.274)

You can go and click there and make sure to buy Rian's book. I'm going to get your book when it comes out in October. I'm really excited about it. Thank you so much, Rian.

Bye bye.